second thoughts

How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. -Anne Frank

Tuesday, May 05, 2009

Food for thought

The praised PEOPLE program for low income and/or minority students has an 18.9% graduation rate after 4 years.

Compare that with 50% of all freshman who graduate in 4 years.

What good is policy if it gets kids into college but doesn't get them to finish line?

Waste of money? Or do we simply need to fix the other half of the problem...

posted by Katy @ 4:45 PM  

5 Comments:

  • At 5/5/09 10:37 PM , OpenID mollymeg said...

    The PEOPLE program is always criticized for its 4 year graduation rate, when people always leave out that it's 5 year graduation rate is 60& and 6 year is 66.7% It also has much higher long term retention rates than the general stats. I think the point of the program is that students get through, rather than getting through as fast as possible-- PEOPLE scholarships are actually for 5 years, not 4, if I'm not mistaken.

    When you refer to the other half of the problem, are you talking about the finishing school part?

    I think we need to start tackling inequity in the public school system in the pre-college years (with teachers like you!) in order to raise the bar so that this policy isn't a glowing success, in the future it should take better stats. (we'll also need the support of policy makers, tax payers, a shift in public mind set, etc...a vicious cycle!)

    Right now though the PEOPLE program is pulling better numbers as compared to the same population of students entering a university without support.

    what do you suggest?

     

  • At 5/5/09 11:00 PM , Blogger Katy said...

    This post has been removed by the author.

     

  • At 5/5/09 11:08 PM , Blogger Katy said...

    I did not maliciously leave out the 5 and 6 year graduation rates to hide any statistic or success of the program. I left them out to make my post as brief as possible and to emphasize my shock and these astonishing numbers (and hopefully get a response! yay for a discussion molldoll!).

    In fact, while grad rates for 5th year are at 60.7%, and 6th year at 66.7%; this is still dramatically lower than the entire freshman group as a whole. Out of all freshman 78% graduate in 5 years, and 82% graduate in 6 years. PEOPLE program even fair worse than first generation college students, generally low income themselves, who graduate in 4 years 33% of the time, 64% for 5 years, and 70% in 6 years. PEOPLE program still doesn't stack up.

    I'm not criticizing PEOPLE though, it does exactly what it says its going to do. It gets low income and/or minority students ready to apply for college and gets them admitted. Check out the numbers for this, and its amazing and successful. I'm saying though its naive to think 18% grad rates is a success. (or 66% after 6 years...what about the other 34%?!)

    What i meant by it is only half the puzzle is that sure it is helping low income students into college, but what is being done to help them graduate? I'm not saying it is the job of PEOPLE, but drastically low grad rates should be a red flag that something needs to be done to support low income students in higher ed.

    Also, while true (and believe me I believe in the importance of academically preparing students BEFORE college), I think the 'fix-K-12-card' is all too common and all too easy to play while looking at our universities and their problems. Also, there other factors besides being academically prepared) playing into low grad rates.

    I have a few ideas for change... a later post. I'd be curious to hear other peoples thoughts first.

     

  • At 5/6/09 4:24 PM , OpenID mollymeg said...

    haha I wasn't implying that you maliciously left it out...

    I was more so referring to the fact that I've just heard it presented that way on the Madison campus a lot.

    i'd be interested to hear discussion as well!

    Because man, I think the k-12 card gets pulled so often because it's extremely overwhelming when you look at the cracks in the education system as a whole, eeeeeeeeek.

     

  • At 5/7/09 1:44 PM , Blogger Katy said...

    I think i just like how the word 'malicious' sounds. ha.

    eeeek is right...I'm just saying that higher ed has their own EEEEk problems as well...and passing off the buck won't help solve them any quicker.

     

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